I was just nit-picking about the “already installed” part of your sentence.

Ok I see your point.
Of course it’s going better.

I wasn’t trying to predict the future of HTML or Java. I just hope I can still use Java in the near future as a strong cross-platform toolkit, instead of having to struggle with the non-versioned, not-compatible, non-intuitive, not-compiled, not-easily-implemented HTML.

I just wrote about my own tastes and API preferences. I don’t really care about momentum and reality when I choose a platform. If I would, I’d develop in Flash instead of SVG years ago.

Any Windows computer sold in Europe from March 2010

Huh – I thought there was going to be a ballot screen where the user has to choose a web browser. I didn’t realize a valid option was “None”.

If you compare web applications to other enterprise solutions, then yes they have a long way to go. But if you compare the situation to 5 years ago, they have actually come a VERY long way:

• Tool support – Firebug, Opera DragonFly, WebKit Inspector, even IE
• JavaScript toolkits – jQuery, dojo, and a host of others smooth out the bumps across browsers
• Standards Support – yes, even the browsers have gotten better!

What do you mean by momentum and reality ?

Maybe I don’t listen to the proper channels – but when’s the last time time you heard of a company betting big on Java as a UI solution?

The only thing I can think of is Google’s GWT (where you write Java and it compiles to cross-browser JavaScript).

Any Windows computer sold in Europe from March 2010.
But it’s not because a VM is preinstalled on a lot of devices that it is necessarily good.

I didn’t know iPhone/Pad haven’t Java installed.

What do you mean by momentum and reality ?

I’m talking about Java applications. Applets just add one dependence (html). Of course you can deploy Java applications easily with Web Start.

Well, compilation is a subject of argument since the dawn of computing time. It’s just a matter of taste. I personally can’t stand script languages. Debugging syntax and type errors at runtime is an aberration. The need of a good analysing IDE lowers the barrier of entry for me!

I’m not against Web applications. But having tasted the mess of browsers incompatibilities and IE hacks and legacy HTTP inconsistencies, and cryable unicode support in PHP, and a lot more poorly written libs API in PHP, and the lack of CSS3/HTML5 support, and … They need to mature. They need a quantum leap. They need to get away from Hixie’s motto : backward compatible incremental changes. And they need a certification office that blame (or even sue!) buggy implementations.

And why do you think a browser is not something you have to install ?!?

I can’t think of one modern computing device that doesn’t come with a HTML web browser already installed. Can you?

On the other hand, iPhone and the iPad do not support Java. I haven’t heard whether ChromeOS or WebOS support Java but they are based on Open Web technologies. Android apps are written in Java, but are not at all portable – yet it also comes with WebKit.

Really, think about it. Do you think OpenJDK is less Open than HTML5 ?

This isn’t quite a question of open-ness (though I admit that open-ness does play a factor for me personally). This is about momentum and reality.

By the way, I’m curious – are you talking about standalone Java applications or Java applets (or both)?

I haven’t done any Java application development outside of Android lately, is there a clean mechanism for deploying Java applications that instantly updates itself on every user’s computer instantly. The deployment story for web apps (HTTP) is a big factor for me. Another big factor is the lack of a need for compilation (lowers the barrier of entry for new developers).

Geez I really hope not.
HTML is a mess and is not ready to do the quantum leap it needs (see HTML5). Java is much more portable (see all browsers incompatibilities) and cleanly developed.
And why do you think a browser is not something you have to install ?!?

Really, think about it. Do you think OpenJDK is less Open than HTML5 ?